(Rewind) An Optometrist's Guide to Business Entities

In this replay of a popular 2023 episode, Evon revisits an important topic for optometry practice owners and independent contractors - the differences between different business entities!

How do the different business entities work? How are they taxed? How are they different?

In this episode, Evon provides a basic guide to the differences between:

• Sole Proprietorships
• Partnerships
•  Limited Liability Companies (LLCs)
• S-Corporations
• Corporations

If you own an optometry practice or are an independent contractor, hopefully this episode brings some clarity around how the different types of businesses operate. 

Have questions on anything discussed or want to have topics or questions featured on the show? Send Evon an email at evon@optometrywealth.com.

Check out www.optometrywealth.com to get to know more about Evon, his financial planning firm Optometry Wealth Advisors, and how he helps optometrists nationwide. From there, you can schedule a short Intro call to share what's on your mind and learn how Evon helps ODs master their cash flow and debt, build their net worth, and plan purposefully around their money and their practices. 

Resources mentioned on this episode:

• The Optometry Money Podcast Ep. 47: An Optometrist's Guide to How Income Taxes Work
• IRS.Gov Reasonable Compensation for S Corporation Officers
• IRS.Gov How to Apply for an EIN

The Optometry Money Podcast is dedicated to helping optometrists make better decisions around their money, careers, and practices. The show is hosted by Evon Mendrin, CFP®, CSLP®, owner of Optometry Wealth Advisors, a financial planning firm just for optometrists nationwide.

Transcript

Evon: 0:00

Hey everybody. Thanks for listening today with the close of the regular tax season and what the start of my firm's season to start to review tax returns for clients. I wanted to throw back and rewind to a popular 2023 episode all about differences between business entities. And hopefully you'll find this episode helpful. We'll be back next week with brand new episodes. So hopefully we'll catch you then. In the meantime, enjoy the episode. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Optometry Money Podcast, where we're helping ODs all over the country make better and better decisions around their money, their careers, and their practices. I am your host, Evon Mendrin, Certified Financial Planner and owner of Optometry Wealth Advisors, an independent financial planning firm just for optometrists nationwide. And on today's episode, I'm going to continue our tax series, two episodes ago, episode 47. We talked all about on a basic level how income taxes work, how the tax rates work, how your tax is calculated, how withholdings work, mostly from a household level. And you can find that just by going to optometrywealth. com slash 47. And I'll throw a link to that in the show notes as well, but I want to continue this tax theme. And from, from this episode, talk all about businesses. I want to go through the different business entities that you can select. so if you are a practice owner or even an independent contractor, or if you're self employed in any way, I want to go through the different types of business entities that you can select and some of the liability protections with each one, I want to talk a lot about how they're taxed. And some considerations at the end for deciding which business entity to choose. And I'm not going to go too deep into the legal, aspects of operating these businesses from the legal documentation or too much in depth from the liability standpoint. Number one, because this is a tax series, right? So I kind of want to keep that focus, but also I think I want to have an attorney on that can talk more generally about asset protection and how these different business entities fit in. But we're going to go through a lot today. And business taxation, or just trying to make sense of all these different business types, it can be pretty complicated for, for a lot of reasons. There's a lot of rules and details and nuances. with each entity. And there's a lot of nuances and rules, not only with each entity, but with each state. So there's a lot of differences on how each state is going to recognize or tax all these different business types. but there's also a difference between the legal entity that you own and the way it's taxed, which can confuse people, I think. So this is really a place where legal, tax and financial expertise all come together. So this is going to be a general basic overview of the differences between each business type, mostly from a federal tax level. but this is definitely a place where you want to talk with your whole, for whole professional team, not just tax, not just financial advisor, but an attorney that knows business as well and get some input from your, your whole professional team. So let's dive in here and when you think about the taxation of businesses. and business entities and business types. There's two categories or two buckets of, of taxation for businesses. On the one hand, you have pass through business entities, right? You have one type called pass through businesses. And on the other hand, you have C corporations. Pass through businesses are, not surprisingly, everything that's not a C corporation. And I'm going to go through all the different ones, but the reason that they're called pass through businesses is because those businesses don't pay their own income tax. Even if they file a tax return, it's informational. The businesses themselves don't pay their own income tax. Instead, all of the net income, the profit from that business, passes through to the tax return of the owner, to your tax return. And that income is taxed on your tax return at your personal tax rates. So there's one layer of taxation. All of that. Net income just passes through to your tax return and it ends up on, on your personal tax rates. a C corp on the other hand, is different and, and we'll talk about that towards the end, how that's different. Right. So there's two different general categories. Let's start with the pass through type businesses. What, what do those look like? Well, the first one to look at is the sole proprietor. The sole proprietorship may be the simplest type of business to set up and maintain. Part of which is because there's no actual separate entity. It's not its own separate business entity. Sole proprietorship is basically you as an individual deciding to do business. You might have a doing business ads, you might have a business name, but there's no legal separation between you and your business. which leads to some liability issues because you've sort of left yourself open to the liability that might happen within the business. And you've opened yourself up to all of your personal net worth, your personal assets, being vulnerable to the business liabilities. This is why good insurance coverage is super important if that is you. And this is another place where you want to talk to an attorney and say, Okay, here's my business. Here's my situation. What liability do I really hold and what's the best entity for me? Alright, so sole proprietorship, it's the most simplest to maintain. There's no legal separation between you and your business. There's no separate entity. By default, your social security number is sort of your, your EIN, your employer identification number. but you can get a separate EIN number, which I think makes sense. if you're going to have like a, a solo 401k retirement account, you actually have to. So you can get a separate EIN number. you can apply at the IRS website, which I'll throw into the show notes. And that's really the only place you really want to go to do this, to, to apply for this EIN number. It's a, a really straightforward. You can sign up for this free EIN now by going to the IRS website. on your personal 1040 income tax return, and you're gonna find a Schedule C, right? So that's where all of your business information is recorded, and that's how your, your net profit's gonna be, calculated on that form. So you'll, you'll pull up your, 1040 personal tax return, one of the line items there in the very beginning, where it lists all of your income, is gonna be business income, your Schedule C income. And one thing to know about sole proprietors or self employed, right, whenever you hear the word self employed, it means you're taxed on a Schedule C like this, is not only is their income taxed as all that income ends up on your personal tax return, But there's also self employment tax, which you're going to see on Form SE, Schedule SE. and that self employment tax is Social Security and Medicare taxes that you may have seen when you were an employee. You would have seen those taken off of your pay stubs, withheld from you from your pay stubs. Well, when you're self employed and you're sole proprietor, you're considered both the employee and the employer. So you're going to be paying both halves, both sides of that self employment tax, which equals about 15. 3%. Of course, Social Security's only, only goes up to the, Social Security wage base, so may not be on all of your income, but in general, that combined self employment tax rate is 15. 3%, plus if your income gets to a different level, a certain level, there may be an additional Medicare tax that kicks in. And this self employment tax is something I think that surprises people the most, especially when you are a cold start and you're just starting to see practice growth, or you're an independent contractor and you're not used to handling a lot of this on your own, you're used to it being. taken out of your, your withholdings from your pay stub. this self employment tax I think is something that surprises people as they get to tax time and they say, Oh my goodness, what does this giant tax do? So, on a sole proprietor, you have income taxes, you also have a self employment tax. You do get a deduction for half of that, half of that self employment tax. It's not going to be on your Schedule C, right? It won't be listed as one of your, business deductions. It will be on the adjustments to your income before your adjusted gross income is calculated. So do you get a deduction for that? another thing you get as a Schedule C as a sole proprietor is the qualified business income deduction. QBI deduction is a 20 percent deduction that pass through businesses get on essentially net operating profit, right? So as a Schedule C, as a sole proprietor, that's net self employment income. So your revenue minus your, minus your different taxable business expenses. There's a few adjustments there, but it's essentially a 20 percent deduction on your net income from self employment. And that's something you get on that full amount, right? So that's something you're eligible for. there's also other deductions, for example, self employed retirement accounts, solo 401ks, SEP IRAs, you're eligible for those. as well as a health insurance premium deduction, a self employed health insurance premium deduction. If you're not on a spouse's plan and you're paying for health insurance out of pocket, that's something to keep in mind as well. how do you pay yourself as a sole proprietor? Well, there's no wage that you're able to pay yourself, right? You're not able to pay yourself a salary or a W 2 wage. So you're really just going to distribute dollars out of your business account to your personal household account. All right, it's just going to be a distribution. what about tax withholding? Well, as I mentioned, there's no wage. You're not going to have pay stubs. There's no payroll. So you're going to have to be making quarterly estimated tax payments. And those are due in April, June, September, and January. If you're married and your spouse is working, you know, you might be able to handle the withholdings on your spouse's paychecks because it's really all about total withholdings in the household on the tax return. But from your, just from your business standpoint, that's how you're going to be handling withholdings, right? So sole proprietorship, the most simple, opens you up to the full liability of the business. You have income taxes, self employment tax on the Schedule C and on the Schedule SE, and then some deductions there for the business. Next, let's talk about partnerships. Similar to the sole proprietorship, a partnership is more than one person deciding to do business together. So just like the sole proprietorship, there's no separate business entity. You're still open to the liability of the business. And in fact, if you're, if you're all general partners, you're all active partners in the business. You may even be liable to the liability of your partner's actions as well. So there, there might even be more liability there. And I think it's important to say we often, when we talk about optometry practices with more than one owner, we often say partners, but we rarely are talking about the, the legal partnership when we say partners. I think when we say partners with optometry practices, often it's just the fact that there's more than one owner. It's your co owner. And like a sole proprietorship, as I mentioned, there's that liability piece for general partners. There's also the self employment tax, but you do also qualify for qualified business income deduction. So you get that as well. There's also limited partnerships too, where there's a general partner who's actively doing the work, actively involved in the business. And then there's limited partners that are really like passive investors and their liability is limited to their investment, right? So they do actually have limited liability. You're going to see that a lot in, in, real estate investments, for example, you'll see that, so those are limited partnerships. With partnerships, they are a highly complicated area of tax law. And there's a lot of flexibility with partnerships in terms of how you can allocate income and gains and losses between the different partners. They don't have to be based on your specific percentage of ownership. You can't pay a wage, a W 2 salary in a partnership as well, but you can take a guaranteed payment. which is a similar concept. operating agreements are incredibly important in a partnership to spell out all of the details that get involved there. So again, talk with your attorney. A partnership does file its own tax return, Form 1065, and that is due by today. As of the date that this will go live, March 15th, that Form 1065 partnership tax return is due, unless you choose to extend and you've got six months later. Bye. Once that's filed, you get a Form K 1, which shows you your share of business profit and loss. And that's what ends up on your personal tax return. So, again, this doesn't pay its own tax, the partnership, even though it does file its own tax return. And then you're going to see that information on the K 1 on your Schedule E in your personal tax return. So that's a partnership, two or more people, working together, essentially going into a venture together. It's not common due to the liability issues, but, but it's available. Now I want to talk about actual separate entities, right? Separate entities from yourself that are going to provide that liability protection. And the first one, which is one of the most common forms of entity type is the Limited Liability Company, the LLC. LLCs are not actually a corporation, even though they are a separate entity. Entity from yourself. they've been around, I think since 1977, and depending on your state, like I mentioned, are one of the more popular entity types because they provide that liability protection that corporations provide. But they also have quite a bit of flexibility and they may be simpler to maintain than a corporation due to no requirements for like board of directors or corporate bylaws or, or minutes or things like that. So they may, they provide some flexibility. They may be simpler to maintain. the owners are called members, not shareholders. They're called members and they provide limited liability, meaning you have a separate entity from yourself. so your liability as the owner is limited to your investment in that business. Your personal net worth is not involved in that. Of course, when we talk about liability, that's different from your, professional liability as an optometrist. You're, of course, going to want to make sure that you're insured from a malpractice insurance or professional liability insurance standpoint. But if someone trips and falls in the practice, sues your practice. an LLC is going to provide you that limited liability if you are maintaining it appropriately, meaning you are meeting the requirements to maintain this limited liability, the LLC as a separate company. You're not co mingling, co mingling your business assets with your personal assets. You've got separate bank accounts, separate finances, things like that. How are LLCs taxed? All right. How do we handle the taxation of an LLC? This is where it gets interesting because LLCs actually have flexibility in the way that they can be taxed because you can choose the way that you want to be taxed. So, let me explain. By default, if you are a single owner LLC, right? So, a single member LLC, you're considered a disregarded entity. What that means is that the IRS ignores your LLC. and it's going to tax you basically like your sole proprietorship. So the taxation is pretty straightforward. it's going to be taxed pretty similar to like you would have been as a sole proprietor. So you're going to have a, everything we mentioned about the sole proprietorship applies to this from a federal tax standpoint. You'll have a Schedule C. You're going to be subject to self employment tax, but you also have the qualified business income deduction to, to take into account, plus the other business deductions and retirement plans available. All right, so all those same rules apply from a federal tax standpoint. If you have two or more members, you're by default taxed as a partnership. So all the partnership rules will apply from the tax standpoint. So I guess it's important first to realize that Unless certain decisions are made, the LLC is not going to save you taxes. You're going to be taxed basically the same as if you would have been if you are a sole proprietor. But it's initially going to be about liability protection. And that's what's important here, right? Again, all of those different expertise and disciplines and topics come together here when it comes to business formation. So that's by default, a single member LLC is going to be taxed just like a sole proprietorship. or if there's two or more members, two or more owners, it's going to be by default taxed as a partnership. However, as an LLC can elect or choose to be taxed either as a C Corporation using Form 8832 or as an S Corporation using Form 833. 2553 and this is where it gets very interesting. and I'll talk about how those, the, the taxation of those two are handled next, but you can choose to, when it makes sense, if, or when it makes sense. To be taxed differently and you'll submit that, let's say you wanted to make that election, you could submit that, by two months and 15 days or 75 days after the start of your tax year, which would be basically right now, or if you're just starting your entity, if you're just starting your business, 75 days after the start of your business. Now, I've seen a lot of examples where people are filing that late retroactively. and you have to give a reasoning for why you're doing that, so talk with your tax professional if you're wanting to revisit the way that your entity is taxed, but that's where it gets interesting with an LLC is that it provides that liability protection if you're maintaining it correctly and you get some flexibility with deciding how you want to be taxed. So LLCs are formed with your state, you're going to get an operating agreement, makes a lot of sense to do that. and then you can also get an EIN number with the IRS. Once that's open, the states are going to treat this differently, right? So this is a big disclaimer here. Each state's going to treat this differently and how they tax it, the fees involved to operate it, and whether they're going to acknowledge it or, whether they're going to allow you as an optometry practice to be formed as an LLC. Right? So. talk with your professionals. This is going to be the big disclaimer throughout this whole conversation. that's something that you're going to see obviously as a, as an optometry practice, if that makes sense to go that route, but also independent contractors tend to get advised to open up an LLC as well. not only from a liability standpoint, but also really from a tax planning standpoint. And that's where this next entity decision comes in. Which leads me to the S Corporation. Now the S Corporation is not actually a legal entity that you can go and form. You're going to either form an LLC or you're going to incorporate and form a corporation. So it's not an actual legal entity that you can form, but it's a tax designation. It's a way that you're choosing to be taxed under Subchapter S. So really you're going to have an LLC that's choosing to be taxed as an S Corporation, or you're going to have a corporation. It's going to be taxed as an S corporation. Whenever we say we own an S corporation, that's really what we mean, is we own a business that's choosing to be taxed in that way. And one of the main benefits of choosing to be taxed as an S corporation is number one, you have, it's a pass through entity, right? So you have a single layer of taxation, but you also, potentially save taxes on self employment taxes. So those are some of the main benefits to using an S corporation. And there are some requirements. So number one, you have to be a domestic entity, a domestic corporation. You can only be owned by individuals, or certain trusts in the States. So you can't be owned by partnerships or corporations. It can't have more than 100 shareholders and you can only have one class of stocks. You can't have a voting class and a non voting class. All of those should be pretty easy to meet as an optometry practice, right? So, nothing really to stress about there. As the owner of an S Corporation, you are both An employee and an employer. So because you are an employee, there is a requirement, not an option, a requirement to pay yourself a reasonable W 2 wage in the business. And the first dollars out of that business to yourself have to be meeting that reasonable wage. I've seen a lot of examples and had too many conversations where That reasonable wage was 30, 000 for an optometrist working full time in their own practice. Clearly that is under what you would expect to be paid as an optometrist, right? So you do need to pay yourself a reasonable wage. The IRS has some guidelines around what that means. I mean, reality, when you boil it down, it's what would you pay someone else to do your exact work with similar experience to do the same work that you're doing in the practice as an optometrist? as a manager, as an administrator, right? So what would you have to pay yourself to do that? It's reasonable, and because you have this requirement to pay yourself a reasonable wage, You're going to have payroll, right? So you need to be running payroll throughout the year. you can also handle federal state, employment tax withholdings through that payroll, just like you would have been if you're working somewhere else, the retirement account contributions have to be your employee amount has to be withheld through your pay stubs, just like it would be if you're working somewhere else. And. For an S corporation, for an S corp, you do need to pay employment taxes on your wages. So, Social Security, up to that wage base, I think is around 160, 000 in 2023. So, Social Security taxes up to the wage base, plus Medicare taxes, plus the extra Medicare tax, the additional Medicare tax, if your income is high enough. So, with an S corporation, you have to pay yourself, on the one hand, a reasonable wage, and on the other hand, everything that's left is profit, is net income. On net income, on profit, there is no self employment tax. There is no social security tax and there's no Medicare tax on that income. Only income tax. That is really where your tax savings comes in. so for example, let me give you an example here. Let's say you, your owner's net, right? So you're, you're optometry practice after you have your revenue coming in, collected, you pay for all your, your operational expenses and you're left with 150, 000, right? That's sort of your total owner's net. And let's say you paid yourself a 100, 000 wage throughout the year. That means you have a 50, 000 profit. On that 100, 000 wage, you would have had to, handle social security taxes and Medicare taxes, right? All of the usual employment taxes, including the state and local, are going to be handled on that wage. They're going to be assessed on that wage. However, you do not have those on your 50, 000 profit. So for example, if the, if the self employment tax was about 15. 3%, you would be saving somewhere around 7, 000 of self employment tax by switching to an S corporation versus simply being taxed as a, single member, single member LLC on a Schedule C. So that's where that tax saving is going to come in. That's not the end of the story because there's more that goes into choosing to be taxed as an S corporation. Number one, one big difference is the qualified business income deduction. I'm going to have a separate episode next, next episode all about the QBI deduction and what goes into that because I think there's enough that enough details in that that it warrants its own, its own conversation, but that QBI deduction, you cannot take that deduction on the wages that you pay yourself. You can only take that deduction On the profit of your business. so going back to that example, if you had 150, 000 owner's net, a hundred thousand of that was your wage, your W2 wage as an employee. That 50, 000 profit is the only thing you can take the QBI deduction on. So while you're lowering self employment taxes, you're also potentially dramatically lowering your QBI deduction. There's more that goes into this equation than meets the eye. And I, I would say that, especially for independent contractors, you know, if you're a private practice owner and you are. Successful, your net income is going to get to a point where it probably makes sense, all things considering to, to elect an S corp, status. It may not be right away if you're cold starting, but at some point you likely will be there. However, if you're an independent contractor, you may be advised to, when your income gets to a certain point, to open an LLC and choose to be taxed as an S corporation. And I just want you to think really carefully about that because it's not just about these self employment taxes that you might save. You also need to consider that 20 percent QBI deduction. you also need to consider the headaches and costs of filing a separate tax return, of having payroll. Now you have to handle payroll. you have to handle your 401k contributions differently because you have to do it through payroll as well. So you have to keep in mind all of the additional costs and headaches that go into, operating as an S corporation that you may not have had when you were just a, an LLC. So there's a lot more to keep in mind. An S corporation does file its own tax return. Again, it does not pay its own tax, but it does file its own tax return due at the same time as your partnership returns March 15th. Today, that's the 1120S. Once that's filed, similar to a partnership, you're going to get a K 1 and you're going to see your share of the net profit from that business on your Schedule E. Remember, pass through business entities, their net income is automatically going to be passed through to your personal tax return, right? So the profit is going to pass through and end up on your tax return and it's already going to be taxed. regardless and totally separate from whether you keep that profit in your business bank account or whether you distribute it to yourself. Distributing it to yourself does not cause it to be taxed. That profit's already either been taxed in past tax years or it's going to be taxed in that current year, right? It's totally unrelated from whether you keep it in the business bank account. Now distributing profit out of your business does impact other things. It impacts, for example, the cost basis in your practice. That's a conversation for another episode. So there's other things that it's going to affect. So you do want to talk with your advisors, your tax pro, your financial advisor, to plan around how you're going to pay yourself and how you're going to distribute. But it's, it's unrelated from the income tax itself. And, what it really comes down to is how are you planning to use the extra cash flow in your practice? After you've paid for your core operating expenses, after you've set aside money for taxes, been able to make your minimum debt payments, after you've set aside enough for a savings amount within the practice, or planning for anticipated investments in the practice, After you've started to tackle those things, where do you plan to take and use that cash flow? Whether it's in the household, investing, whether it's paying off debt, whatever that may be, whether it's improving your life, right? What is your plan for that cash flow? So just something to keep in mind there. Distributing cash out of your practice is not going to cause additional income tax. It's going to impact other things, but not that income tax. I think where that comes from is what I'm going to talk about next. are C corporations. C corporations, as I mentioned earlier, are not pass through businesses. C corporations have double taxation because a C corporation, just like you would see if you purchased XYZ publicly traded stock, a C corporation pays its own tax at the corporate level. there's a flat 21 percent tax rate as of right now, as of recording. so it's going to pay its own tax on profit. at the business level. And then if you distribute dividends to yourself as the owner, those dividends are taxed again on your personal tax return, right? So there's two layers of taxation there. you do get to take advantage of certain fringe benefits that you wouldn't get to as a pass through business owner, like an S corporation owner. but again, because of that double taxation, a business like optometry, an optometry practice where most of that profit is going to be distributed to the owner anyways. There's not substantial reinvestment back into the practice for massive growth. you're not bringing in a lot of investors. You don't need separate share classes. it's, it's rare outside of very specific situations that you're going to see practices owned at C corporations, or if you're an independent contractor, that's even going to be more rare. So a C corporation is going to have that double taxation. So that's a general overview of how these different entities work. The general overview of how they're taxed, especially from a federal taxation standpoint. Again, every state is going to have its own specifics. So it's really important. I mean, it's critically important for you to talk with your specific professionals, to see what decision makes sense for you. As you're thinking through that, as you're thinking about, okay, what entity makes sense for me? Does it make sense for me to change entities? How does that work? here are some, some different considerations for you to keep in mind. Number one is there's tax considerations, which we've been talking a whole lot about. How is the business taxed? and by extension, how are you going to be taxed as the owner? how are you going to pay yourself and how do taxes fit within that additional state and local taxes that come with that? is your state going to have a certain fee just to keep and maintain that, that business, the need for tax flexibility as your business grows? what are the costs for filing additional extra tax returns? So there's some tax considerations to keep in mind. Number two, there's going to be some non tax considerations. So for example, some states don't allow optometry practices to be owned or formed as LLCs. So you're going to have to go a different direction there. there's also certain legal and compliance requirements to open and maintain that type of property. Certain entity. Maybe there's corporate bylaws, corporate minutes, whatever it may be. how is payroll gonna be hand handled in the different entities? Are there gonna be additional headaches that come from opening and operating that specific entity? Those are some things you're gonna wanna think about. do you plan to bring on investors or co-owners? Do you plan to allow associates to, to buy into the practice? do you plan to have separate entities, layered entities in order to, to work around that? So. There's some non tax considerations too. And then lastly, liability. There's liability considerations, which is one of the most important reasons you would open a separate business entity outside of yourself is to protect your, yourself and your personal net worth from what can go wrong or happen, even if accidentally over the course of your business. Those are some things for you to keep in mind. Hopefully this was helpful for you to wrap your, at least start to wrap your brain around. Thank you. How these different business types work. there's a lot of really simplistic, even if it's accurate, tax advice out there that you're going to find on the internet, on social media. So just be aware of that. There is no one size fits all for everybody. There, there just isn't. Even again, if you're deciding, Hey, should I. I have an LLC, should I choose to be taxed as an S corporation? Like there is no one size fits all, there's rules of thumb, but it really comes down to running the math for your particular situation. What are your state taxes and requirements? And what is the, where do you see your business going? How, how might it grow into the future? And what's the right decision for you? And again, don't take this as advice. You need to keep in mind and talk with your legal, your tax professional, whether it's a CPA. or an enrolled agent in EA and your financial advisor. Everyone needs to be involved here. so if you have any questions on all this, I know I, I barely scratched the surface here. If you have any questions on how any of this works and how it might apply to you, reach out. You can send me an email at evon, E V O N at optometrywealth. com. you can go to my website, optometrywealth. com. you can check out all the resources and show notes for this episode at the education there on my website. And you can also schedule a no commitment introductory call. And we can talk about how all of this works. Cause I, I love talking about it. I can talk about it all day. I mean, there's things like bookkeeping, which you didn't even get into and, and cash. And so there's, there's so much on the business side that goes into it. And I, and I just, I love it. I'm happy to talk all about it. if you want to talk about more about whatever's on your mind financially and learn more about how I serve optometrists about this stuff and, and every aspect of their finances, nationwide. Feel free to schedule a time to chat and, and would love to do that. So, hopefully you enjoyed it. Thank you so much for your time and your energy. If you made it to the end of this episode, kudos to you and hopefully we'll catch you. On the next episode, we'll talk about the QBI deduction and I've got a, a, a lineup of really great guests. I think you're really gonna enjoy. So, so we'll catch you next time. In the meantime, take care for resources to help master your money, check out the Education Hub on Yvonne's website@optometrywealth.com. Evon Mendrin is a certified financial planner and owner of Optometry Wealth Advisors, a California registered investment advisor. All opinions of Evon and his guests are their own. This show is for informational purposes only and should not be relied on for specific investment, legal, tax, or other decisions. Clients of OWA may own securities mentioned on this show.