Questions? Thoughts? Send a Text to The Optometry Money Podcast!
In today's episode, Evon gives optometrists a guide on one of the most tax-efficient savings accounts out there - Health Savings Accounts!
He dives into the appropriate uses and benefits of HSAs, who is eligible to contribute, the annual limits and nuances to keep in mind, how to invest in an HSA as a retirement account, and planning considerations and ideas to make the most of them.
Have questions on anything discussed or want to have topics or questions featured on the show? Send Evon an email at podcast@optometrywealth.com.
Check out www.optometrywealth.com to get to know more about Evon, his financial planning firm Optometry Wealth Advisors, and how he helps optometrists nationwide. From there, you can schedule a short Intro call to share what's on your mind and learn how Evon helps ODs master their cash flow and debt, build their net worth, and plan purposefully around their money and their practices.
Resources mentioned on this episode:
The Optometry Money Podcast is dedicated to helping optometrists make better decisions around their money, careers, and practices. The show is hosted by Evon Mendrin, CFP®, CSLP®, owner of Optometry Wealth Advisors, a financial planning firm just for optometrists nationwide.
Questions? Thoughts? Send a Text to The Optometry Money Podcast!
In today's episode, Evon gives optometrists a guide on one of the most tax-efficient savings accounts out there - Health Savings Accounts!
He dives into the appropriate uses and benefits of HSAs, who is eligible to contribute, the annual limits and nuances to keep in mind, how to invest in an HSA as a retirement account, and planning considerations and ideas to make the most of them.
Have questions on anything discussed or want to have topics or questions featured on the show? Send Evon an email at podcast@optometrywealth.com.
Check out www.optometrywealth.com to get to know more about Evon, his financial planning firm Optometry Wealth Advisors, and how he helps optometrists nationwide. From there, you can schedule a short Intro call to share what's on your mind and learn how Evon helps ODs master their cash flow and debt, build their net worth, and plan purposefully around their money and their practices.
Resources mentioned on this episode:
The Optometry Money Podcast is dedicated to helping optometrists make better decisions around their money, careers, and practices. The show is hosted by Evon Mendrin, CFP®, CSLP®, owner of Optometry Wealth Advisors, a financial planning firm just for optometrists nationwide.
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Optometry money podcast, where we're helping ODs all over the country make better and better decisions around their money, their careers, and their practices. I am your host, Evon Mendrin, Certified Financial Planner(TM) practitioner, and owner of Optometry Wealth Advisors. An independent financial planning firm, just for optometrists nationwide. And. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. Really appreciate your time and attention. Really appreciate you taking some time out of your day to, listen to the podcast. We are. Man getting close to a hundred episodes and I am just sort of a humbled and overjoyed that anyone listens at all. And. And I'm just excited and glad that this is helpful to people listening. that I'm able to get what I hope is good, valuable high quality education around financial planning and I appreciate the, comments and questions from, from the listeners. People who've reached out. Appreciate those who've found me through the podcasts have listened for a while and have given me the honor of serving your family for financial planning services. So appreciate all of you for listening and on today's episode, I want to dive into Health Savings Accounts HSAs. And this is one of the still, probably under utilized, financial planning tools. But hopefully as you'll learn going through the episode, it's a really awesome planning tool, with a lot of unique tax benefits, a lot of unique nuances too, to, to keep in mind. But it's something you should be paying attention to, and considering if you are eligible. So in today's episode, I want to dive into what HSAs are, how they're used, who qualifies to contribute to an HSA. how to use it appropriately, what the benefits are of contributing. we'll talk about what the contribution maximums are what the limits are per year. And we'll talk about some special nuances and considerations to keep in mind and we'll wrap up with, fun planning ideas around HSAs. So with all that, let's go ahead and dive in. So let's start with what are Health Savings Accounts? What, what are HSAs? Well HSAs is are a tax exempt account that allow you to pay or reimburse certain qualified medical expenses that you incur that aren't covered by your health insurance. And what are those qualified medical expenses? Well, you're going to find a full list and description in IRS Publication 502, and I'll, I'll throw some links in the show notes for you to take a look at. and this IRS publication describes the medical expenses you'd be able to deduct as an itemized deduction on your tax return. So it goes through describing what those are, and it gives you a pretty extensive list in sort of summary of all the different categories of expenses and, and things you can deduct. And. The way that that describes it is that qualified expenses are costs of diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease and for the purpose of effecting any part or function of the body. All right. Pretty broad. these expenses include payments for legal medical services rendered by physicians, surgeons, dentist, and other medical practitioners. they include the cost of equipment supplies and diagnostic devices needed for these purposes. So not only the cost of services, not only medications, but also the different equipment and supplies needed for that. medical care expenses must be primarily to alleviate or prevent a physical and mental disability or illness. but unfortunately they don't include expenses that are merely beneficial to general health, such as vitamins or vacations. And fortunately that vacation to lower stress and to relax is not going to be a part of that as well. The expenses can be for you and your spouse. As well as medical expenses for dependents you claim on your tax returns, what can be for children, but also for other dependents as well. Amounts paid after 2019 for over the counter medicine. whether it's prescribed or not is included. Menstrual care products are included. So the, the definition of that has definitely expanded over recent years. But medical costs incurred after you establish or open your HSA. Are not considered qualified medical expenses. So as soon as you're eligible, you might as well get one started because any expense before that point where you've started and established the account. Are not considered as qualified expenses there. Also insurance premiums generally are not considered qualified medical expenses unless the premiums are for specifically long-term care insurance up to certain limits based on your age. Healthcare continuation coverage like COBRA, and so if you are getting close to retirement, for example, and you need to cover that gap between when you retire and age 65, you can potentially use these HSA dollars for those COBRA premiums. coverage while receiving unemployment insurance under federal or state law. Medicare, and other health coverage if you were 65 or older, but not including supplemental policies like Medigap. You also can't use the accounts to pay for expenses you claimed as an itemized deduction and vice versa. So there's no, double-dipping there. If you got an itemized deduction for medical expenses. You can't also withdraw from an HSA in order to cover those. In all of these keep excellent records for your costs and receipts, right? Because you are going to potentially need to substantiate using the HSA appropriately in the event of an audit. So, you definitely want to keep records of all your receipts for any medical expenses and, and keep them somewhere in like Google drive or Excel spreadsheet or something like that. definitely keep all those receipts. Alright. So that's sort of the general broad list of what might be considered or what might not be considered a qualified health care expense. You can go through that publication. It'll go through literally category by category of different expenses. It's, it's pretty broad. I mean, everything you might expect to be on the list is, is probably on that list. And who can contribute to an HSA, right? Who is eligible to use and contribute to an HSA. Well, you are eligible to contribute to an HSA if you are covered by a high deductible health plan. Which means the health plan has a minimum annual deductible of$1,600 a year for an individual or$3,200 a year for a family. though they can provide preventive preventative care without a deductible or lower than the minimum. And importantly, there's a second requirement and that's, it has to have a maximum out of pocket limit for expenses. of$8,054, an individual and$16,100 for family coverage. So not only has to have a certain minimum annual deductible. But it also has to have a maximum out of pocket limit. And I've seen situations where, where certain plans did have that minimum deductible, but they had a much higher maximum out of pocket limit than was required to be eligible. So if you're looking for coverage, oftentimes you'll see plans labeled as high deductible health plans or HSA eligible health plans. Not always though. So keep in mind, you have to see those two requirements met. And if you're a practice owner and you're talking with your broker about health group health coverage in the practice, keep these in mind as well. So you have to be covered by high deductible health plan. generally you can't have other health coverage in that same year, so you can't be covered by another health plan. Or have certain other, healthcare benefits. You can't be enrolled in Medicare. so basically you have to be under 65 and you're not claimed as a dependent on someone else's tax return. If you meet these requirements, you're eligible to contribute to an HSA. Now, if you have an HSA already and you don't meet these requirements, you still can withdraw from the HSA. You can still use it in that way, but you can't benefit from contributing and adding to the HSA. So what are the benefits of using a Health Savings Account? Well, there's actually quite a bit. For federal taxes, you actually get a tax deduction for your contributions to HSA accounts. You're, you're not going to pay income tax on those dollars. You're contributing. if done through a cafeteria plan through, through your payroll. So if you're an employed, a promised in your, your choosing to have your HSA contributions withheld through payroll and your employer will send those off to the HSA provider. those contributions, not only aren't subject to income taxes. But they aren't subject to FICA taxes either. So it will save you those social security and Medicare taxes. Your employer can contribute and if your employer contributes it doesn't add to your gross income. So their contributions are tax-free as well. unfortunately practice owners aren't likely to benefit from that standpoint. If your practice is taxed as a partnership, HSA contributions for you. if done through the practice will be considered guaranteed payments. So they're going to be deducted by the partnership, but they're going to be included in your income still. But you still get to take a deduction on your personal tax return as an adjustment to your gross income. Right? So you do get a deduction. it doesn't save you those employment taxes. if you own more than 2% of an S Corp which is probably any practice owner that is taxed as an S corporation, are essentially treated in the same way. And unfortunately you're limited on your ability to use and participate in these types of fringe benefits in the practice. But you're still able to, again, benefit from that income tax deduction. So even if you are. using a separate HSA entirely unrelated to the practice in you're making, contributions yourself, you're still able to get that income tax deduction. It'll be it'll show as a, as an adjustment to your gross income. Another benefit are the accounts can be invested. Which I don't know if everyone knows by default, they're probably going to be deposited as cash, but you can choose in most platforms. Probably all, I would hope. You can choose in some way to invest those dollars similarly to you might invest your retirement accounts. And the growth or income inside of the account is tax-free. So your earnings from, capital gains or dividends distributed or interests from the account. All of that is tax-free. The account can grow tax-free. And withdrawals from an HSA to pay for qualified healthcare expenses may be tax-free as well. So you get this triple tax benefit where your contributions are tax deductible. The growth is tax-free. And your withdrawals if used for healthcare expenses are tax-free. You get this triple tax benefit that you don't even get with a Roth IRA. So it's a pretty substantial benefit. if you qualify. Now I keep in mind, every state may handle this differently. So California, for example, where I'm located, doesn't recognize really any of these tax benefits, right. Even. technically even the growth in the account from a California tax income tax standpoint. is taxable capital gains, interest, dividends, things like that. So, Check with your professionals in your life to see how your state's going to handle it. But you get these benefits from a federal tax standpoint, for sure. And these accounts are also portable. I meaning the dollars that you contribute in the account will continue on into the next plan year. And you can take them with you after you change jobs. It doesn't stick with your employer. You don't lose the dollars, which is different from an FSA, a flexible spending account, and why, in my opinion, HSAs are more favorable. FSAs are really focused on paying for the current year's healthcare expenses. only a limited amount of dollars carry into the next plan year. If the plan allows for it, otherwise they're lost and they're not, they're not portable if you leave employment. But HSAs are there they're treated almost like your IRAs or 401k counts. You can take them with you. You can transfer them. dollars are ongoing. It's an ongoing account. So there's quite a bit of benefits of using an HSA. both from a tax standpoint and just from a portability standpoint. I would consider them right up there on par with using a Roth IRA, maybe above a Roth IRA. If you were to determine sort of the order of operations in which to put dollars into different accounts. And when you think about the uses of this account, The the immediate use is to put dollars in for current healthcare expenses. On a tax advantage basis. Yes. If you don't have other savings built up or you can't necessarily cover. health care expenses through cashflow. It's absolutely okay to use your HSA funds to cover your current healthcare expenses. That's perfectly fine. That's what it's for. Right. So that's perfectly okay. But you can get the biggest bang for your buck. By investing the dollars and using it as an additional retirement account. If you have the cashflow to cover healthcare expenses, and if you have. Emerge in emergency fund saved up that might be able to cover like a deductible for example, or, Or at least part of your deductible. You can benefit from the tax-free growth over decades in these HSA accounts. And it's all, but guaranteed you're going to have healthcare expenses in retirement. in fact Fidelity in their retiree healthcare cost estimate, which I'll throw into the show notes. Fidelity estimates that a 65 year old retiring this year. I think this was actually in 2023. So last year. Can expect to spend an average of$157,500 in healthcare and medical expenses throughout retirement, I don't believe that's even including long-term care costs. And a couple might double that for two lifetimes. So there's certainly going to be opportunities to use the account in retirement. even for Medicare premiums after age 65. So really one of the biggest benefits is if you're able to and you choose to invest these dollars in the HSA over the decades of your working career and use it as an additional retirement account. And when you think about health insurance decisions on this, isn't necessarily a podcast about choosing healthcare plans, but you should make health insurance decisions based on the needs of your family. Reviewing your expected medical expenses, your available cash, or your income to cover deductibles. And the out-of-pocket expenses you might expect and look at the plans available to you. And you need to make a decision based on all those different factors, but high deductible health plans, for those with limited healthcare expenses. who are reasonably healthy is a great option for catastrophic coverage. it's sort of insurance in the true sense of the word. It's going to cover your large, really large, unexpected healthcare costs that you wouldn't be able to necessarily cover out of pocket. And these plans, even with a higher deductible, even with a higher out-of-pocket maximum. Can often be the better mathematical choice. when you look at the lower premiums for these plans and the tax deduction for HSA contributions. I would even add, even if you're expecting a single high cost event. the birth of a child is a perfect example. It can actually still make sense. So my wife and I, when we were having our children, we took a look at our plans available to us and it still made sense even what the expected high cost Of all the doctor visits before and all the hospital costs of, of the birth itself. even with those high costs coming up, it's still made sense to go on the high deductible health plan, because you're able to shoot through that deductible so quickly. And depending on how much your plan is going to cover after that deductible is covered. you may have all of your costs, a hundred percent of your costs covered once that deductible is met. And so as long as you have the ability to build up funds in order to cover those deductible expenses, like that can still make sense. You know, so take a look at the math and see if a high deductible health plan can work for you. And if it does you get the benefit, if you have the cash flow, assuming you have the cashflow, you get the benefit of using these Health Savings Accounts. Hey, everybody just want to say thank you for listening to the podcast. If you've enjoyed the podcast. It would be so helpful. If you can leave a review at Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. It gets the word out to other ODs that may benefit. And it helps me to learn how to make any more and more valuable resource for you. Again, thank you for listening. And back to the episode. And what are the limits to put dollars into the HSA accounts? 2024, remember it changes every year. In 2024, the limit for, if you are single or if you have single coverage, meaning that you're the only one covered under the high deductible plan. it's 41 50 a year,$4,150. If you have family coverage, it's$8,300 for the whole family, right? So not for each person. But as a combination for the whole family. and there is a catch-up if you are age 55 and above, which is different for IRAs and other retirement accounts, other other accounts are age 50. For HSAs, it's 55 and above, and each person gets a$1,000 additional amount you can put in. That's your catch up amount. and keep in mind for those. You have to have separate HSAs right? Each spouse has to have their own HSA to put that thousand dollars catch-up in it. There's no such thing as a family or joint HSA. And there are no income limits to contribute, which is different from the Roth IRA. And you don't need to have earned income. All you have to do is meet the qualifications. Um, there are some nuances here with spouses and family plans. One of them, we just talked about what that catch-up amount. each spouse has to have their own separate HSA to put that thousand dollars into if they want to make those catch-up contributions. another nuance to look at is that if you and your spouse. Are covered separately by your own separate high deductible health plans. Maybe one of you at one job is covered and one of you in another job is covered. Then each of you can only contribute up to the$4150 max in your own separate accounts. So one of you can't decide to put the full$8,300 family maximum in one account, you have to do that separately up to your own individual mounts. on the other hand, If you and your spouse or you, and one of your kids are together covered by the same high deductible health plan. Then you can contribute up to the full family maximum in your account in one account that is. Or you can decide to split it up between you and your spouse. So your spouse can put a bit in his or her HSA and you can put the rest in yours, but that's only if there's a there's joint family coverage in the family. so it matters who has the coverage and what that coverage looks like, whether it's joint and family, whether it's split up individually. also, if your employer contributes to the HSA on your behalf, Their contributions are also taken into account for the maximum. So, you know, for example, if your employer puts in$1,000 in the year, you can only put in$7,300 for the family max. So keep an eye out for your employer's contributions when you're trying to figure out the math for that maximum. Another nuance is the timing of when you join a high deductible health plan, or when you become an eligible person to contribute. Uh, for example, what if you switched plans in November and you hop onto a high deductible plan? And you are eligible. You meet all the criteria at November. Can you make the max contribution for that whole year? It depends. So there is a last month rule, which says that you're eligible for the entire year to make the entire year's maximum contribution. If you're on a high deductible health plan. And meet the criteria as of December 1st. So the, as of the first day of the last month of your tax year, And you have to remain on that high deductible plan for the next 12 months. which is important. If you switch plans during this testing window. You have to pay income taxes and a 10% penalty on the extra contribution you made. Otherwise, if you don't meet this last month rule, it's a pro-rata amount of the maximum based on how many months you were covered and eligible on a high deductible health plan. One last nuance to keep in mind is coordination with other health benefits. We talked about you can't generally have any other health care coverage. So, if you are covered by a high deductible health plan and you also have access to a healthcare FSA, flexible spending account or arrangement. or an HRA, a health care reimbursement account. That pays her reimburses qualified medical expenses. And you can't generally contribute to an HSA. QSEHRAs are popular ways to provide healthcare benefits to employees in small businesses like private practices. So if you are offering one or if you're an employee that is receiving one and receiving a benefit from it, keep in mind that it may very well make you ineligible to contribute to an HSA. Even if you otherwise meet the criteria. There are certain exemptions. So if the FSA or the HRA meets certain criteria, can still contribute to an HSA. Mostly it needs to be a limited purpose type of those plans. Or only provide a benefit after you've met the deductible. So there are special coordination rules that you need to keep in mind when you or your spouse are eligible for an FSA or an HRA. you have to keep those in mind as well. The deadline for contributions is your April tax filing deadline. Similar to IRAs. which for the 2023 tax year is April 15th, 2024. So. these are one of the things at this point. This is one of the tax planning levers that you can still pull after the new years for 2023 before the tax filing deadline. And you'll see your contributions reported, whether it's through payroll, whether it's your employer contribution or whether you made it separately. on Form 8889 in your tax return. So, those are all of the benefits, criteria's, contribution limits, deadlines. So let's talk now about a few planning, considerations and ideas for Health Savings Accounts. Firstly, from an estate planning standpoint. These accounts are meant to be spent in your lifetime. They are not very efficient ways to pass down wealth to your heirs. at your death, if your spouse is the beneficiary. Then your spouse can treat the HSA as his or her own. So the tax benefits sort of continue on. They just take it as if it's their own HSA. Which is great. It's fine. But if anyone, but your spouse is the beneficiary and inherits it, it stops being an HSA and the full amount is taxable to the beneficiary in the year of your death. So that's not favorable even compared to traditional IRAs under the recent rules. at least under a Traditional IRA they would still, in many cases have 10 years in order to empty the accounts. If they're minors inheriting, they have up until the age of majority to withdrawal a smaller amount, and then they have 10 years. so compared to other types of accounts, these are not the most favorable ways to pass on wealth to your heirs. though, an interesting note is that you can use HSA accounts to pay for the deceased's healthcare expense within one year after the date of death. So any of the healthcare expenses that were incurred, towards the end of life, you can actually take dollars from that HSA to pay for those within a year of death. So for surviving family members or heirs, or those that are involved in the estate plan, and trying to decide which dollars to use for those expenses, uh keep that in mind. Secondly, As mentioned earlier, the biggest bang is when you're able to invest the dollars over your career. And not all platforms or providers are created equal. Fidelity and Lively are good examples of good options to consider. Although there are many others. some make it quite easy to invest the cash at a low cost or lower administrative expense. Um others require you to open up a brokerage account inside the HSA and move cash over. So sometimes there's extra steps. Some of them will require a certain amount of it to remain in cash. so just review your platform, review your administrative expenses. review, whether it's a clunky platform to use or easier to use. but it does take action to invest. You need to choose to invest it and take steps to do that. And. remember these accounts are portable and you're not required to use a plan that's provided for you by your employer. Although, you know, obviously if you are getting the benefit of taking it out of payroll, if you're an employee you want to do that. but you can open up another HSA at some other provider and contribute to that. If it's, if it's a more favorable provider. you can even transfer dollars out of your employer's plan into the, one of your choosing. So. You know, there's one maximum, but you can have other HSA accounts that are either lower cost or provide better access to investment options. And if invested, you know, assuming you are considering these dollars as long-term retirement dollars, it's now a part of your long-term portfolio as a whole, along with all of the other investment accounts going towards that goal. Your 401k, IRAs, taxable investment accounts. So you can look at all of them together as a whole. And decide which type of investments or funds, which categories investments make the most sense for the HSA versus the other accounts. would call that asset location. So you might have different types or categories of investments. in a taxable brokerage account versus your Roth IRA or HSA versus your pretax retirement accounts. So you definitely get the best bang for your buck if these funds are invested over your career. thirdly, there's no current time limit on when to reimburse yourself for qualified medical expenses. What that means is that you can save receipts of your healthcare expenses over the years. And then decide decades from now to reimburse yourself for those past healthcare expenses. And this gives you some flexibility as you grow the accounts to reimburse yourself down the road. you absolutely need cash. But this also provides flexibility early in retirement to use the funds. for example, in early retirement, you can withdraw from the HSA. To reimburse yourself for past healthcare expenses and open up some room for tax planning by using these tax-free withdrawals to cover your living expenses, then. And potentially opening up for Roth conversions or, qualifying for ACA healthcare premium credits before Medicare age or something like that. Or, or tax gain harvesting. Potentially giving you some flexibility and options early in retirement, but this does require meticulous record keeping. I'm not sure how many people are really keeping track of every receipt for all of their healthcare expenses over the years. but you can use something like Google Drive to just simply upload and, keep and hold on and categorize those expenses by year. And use an Excel spreadsheet to keep track and record all these expenses and which ones you have already reimbursed yourself for. also make sure that you're not trying to reimburse yourself for a past expense that you took as an itemized deduction on your tax return. Right, remember there's no, double-dipping there. fourth, once you turn 65, you can withdraw money from your HSA for any reason without penalty. Now, remember before 65, if you withdraw from your HSA account for a nonmedical expense, those dollars are taxable from an income tax standpoint and there's also a 20% penalty. So it's definitely not favorable, but once you turn 65, it essentially acts as a Traditional IRA. So even if you withdraw from the account. for nonmedical expenses, it's still taxable for income tax purposes, but there's no penalty. Right. So you essentially have an additional pretax retirement account, additional Traditional IRA. obviously it's most favorable if you use it for healthcare expenses, but you still have access to it penalty free after age 65 and beyond. And remember that you can't contribute to at once you're on Medicare. As of the month you enroll Medicare, you're not eligible to contribute. You can certainly withdraw from the account, but you cannot contribute. fifth, you can do a once in a lifetime roll over from a, from an IRA to your HSA. which is interesting because for traditional IRAs, if you do this from a Traditional IRA, you're able to roll pre-tax dollars from that Traditional IRA over to your HSA and convert it to dollars that can now be used tax-free for healthcare expenses. so it's sort of like a different version of a, Roth conversion, specifically for healthcare costs and without a five-year rule. And, it does have to be a direct transfer from an IRA to an HSA. So you can't withdraw the funds and then roll it into an HSA. it's limited to that year's HSA contribution limit. So it's not an unlimited amount. unfortunately it is limited to that, that maximum amount you can put it in whatever year you do it. it's once in a lifetime right, so, you can only do it once in your lifetime. And it does reduce the amount that you can contribute. into an HSA in that year. So if you. if you do the roll over up to the maximum, you can no longer contribute. in that year, you do it right? So it essentially replaces a contribution. if you don't have the cashflow or don't necessarily have an easy way to get funds in order to make that contribution. So when is this useful? Well, there is an argument that this can be done earlier in your career when you don't have dollars to make an HSA contribution. The reason is. because you now have many decades for those dollars to grow and compound similar to like a Roth IRA. but the issue with that is that you don't have a catch-up so you don't have the additional thousand dollar amount. And you may only be covered as an individual for the HSA. So you may be limited to the single maximum rather than the family amount. so alternatively, you can wait until after age 55, and you have family coverage and you can benefit from the additional catch-up amount and the family maximum. You also can't do this from a live SIMPLE IRA or SEP IRA account, meaning one that there's still ongoing contributions. in that year. And it's subject to that 12 month testing period I mentioned above. So you still have to be. continuing to be eligible and on a high deductible plan for the next 12 months. So, it's kind of cool, but it has plenty of limitations where it's not this golden planning opportunity. It kind of reminds me of the 529 to Roth IRA. rollover opportunities that are available now, right? It's it sounds cool, but there's a good amount of limits and strings attached. one last thing I actually want to mention is that there's a potential benefit. If you have adult children that are still covered. Under your high deductible health plan, and they can be on your health plan as parents through age 25, that are no longer tax dependents on your tax return. Right? So they filed their own tax return. Which means they're now eligible to contribute to their own HSAs. there is the potential for them to contribute in their own HSAs up to the family limit. Rather than to the limit as an individual, because they are covered under your health plan as a family health plan, it's family coverage. And this is in addition to your contributions under the family limit. it doesn't necessarily benefit from your tax return, but it can work pretty similar to like hiring your kids and contributing to a Roth IRA. It's a pretty cool opportunities to start to invest in a, in a potentially tax-free account and also set them up for any, unexpected, massive healthcare costs at some point in their life. So. potentially a pretty cool opportunity there with, with sort of a gray area. Right? So in all of these, there's a whole lot of tax and other benefits to using Health Savings Accounts. a whole lot of nuances as well and details to keep in mind. So hopefully this episode was helpful to sort of open your eyes to what's possible with these HSAs, assuming you're eligible and on a high deductible plan. But please keep in touch with your own financial planners, your own advisors and tax professionals, and make sure that you're doing things according to the rules. if you have any questions at all on this podcast or on, ideas on future episodes, uh, you can reach out to podcast@optometrywealth.com. And you can check out all of the links and resources I mentioned in the episode, in the show notes, which you can find that the Education Hub on my website, www.optometrywealth.com. And while you're there, feel free to schedule a no commitment introductory call. we can talk about all the things on your mind financially. HSA related or not. And I can share how I help optometrists solve those same concerns and questions from all over the country. And with that really appreciate your time and we'll catch you on the next episode where I will be, diving into the riveting topic of the, of the new reporting requirements for business and business entity owners under the Corporate Transparency Act. So, hopefully we'll catch you there in the meantime. Take care.